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ducatipaso.org • View topic - Front end setup and other bits of info needed
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 Post subject: Front end setup and other bits of info needed
PostPosted: Mon Dec 09, 2013 12:31 am 
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Joined: Sat Mar 19, 2005 12:00 am
Posts: 107
Location: Santa Clarita, Ca.
model: 750 Paso
year: 1988
First let me say - So good to have the site back! Just in time for my front end rebuild. I've got a leaking fork seal so I need to tear everything down and install new seals (which sucks because I just installed new seals about two years ago (6k miles). But, since I'm there, I have a couple of other things I need advice on...

1) Most of the riding I do is sport touring. No racing or on the edge stuff. One of the things that bother me with my bike is that the front end tends to "skip" if I'm in a corner and hit a small road imperfection. I also tend to readily feel those same imperfections on the straights. I would like to solve this. How can I get a smoother performance out of my front end? Progressive springs? Lighter weight oil? Any suggestions would be appreciated. The current setup is stock. Also - I thought I remember seeing a "how to rebuild" front forks thread on this site. Now I can't find anything.

2) The bike has 18k miles on it. I get a bit of steering head shake if I loosen my grip on the handle bars (ok, if I let go completely). It's not immediate and it's not an extreme situation where the handlebars start immediately swapping sides but it's enough that I'd like it to eliminate it. I'm thinking this could be my steering bearings going bad? Is there a way to tell if my steering head bearings are starting to go without having to take everything apart?

3) I need to replace my brake pads since the left side got soaked with the fork oil. I'd like your opinion on what pads you prefer and why.

That's it for now and thanks in advance for the replies.

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 Post subject: Re: Front end setup and other bits of info needed
PostPosted: Mon Dec 09, 2013 7:25 am 
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paso grand pooh-bah
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Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2005 12:00 am
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Location: SF Bay Area
model: 750 Sport
year: 1990
Yeah, there is certainly something wrong there.
- Check to see that the rim is not bent.
- check that the tire is still round.
- Check the steering head bearings. Most of the time it just needs grease and adjustment.
- Check your wheel bearings.
- When you take it all apart, confirm that everything is tight.

Here's a nice guide from GuzziTech on the M1R forks.
http://archive.guzzitech.com/M1R.html

For videos, search youtube for Delboys Garage. He's usually right on.

Cheers,
Phil

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 Post subject: Re: Front end setup and other bits of info needed
PostPosted: Mon Dec 09, 2013 8:04 am 
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Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2012 9:02 am
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Location: The Blue Mountains, NSW, Australia
model: other
year: 1988
On top of what Phil has suggested, also some simple KISS principle type things to check are tyre pressures, and is the back tyre going square, make sure there is no swingarm side play, and are the front and rear wheels aligned properly, I'd suggest string lining the wheels to check, which may sound like a moron thing to write, but is often the reason for a bike that was alright to start with misbehaving, doesn't take much to knock out of alignment when adjusting a chain regardless of the alignment marks being the same, and you may not even realise it.

By skip, if you mean the bars try to flick out of your hands, then that is either as Phil writes steering head or to firm front suspension, and/or both, my every day ride is a Triumph 675 R Street Triple and it is a shocker (Pun intended :D ) for over firm suspension, had to fit a steering damper it was that bad on rough roads, can't get the compression and rebound damping backed off enough to make it rideable.

Just my 2 Bob's worth

Cheers

Peter

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 Post subject: Re: Front end setup and other bits of info needed
PostPosted: Mon Dec 09, 2013 10:20 am 
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Joined: Sun Jul 18, 2004 12:00 am
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Location: southern Germany
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 Post subject: Re: Front end setup and other bits of info needed
PostPosted: Mon Dec 09, 2013 7:27 pm 
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Joined: Sat Mar 19, 2005 12:00 am
Posts: 107
Location: Santa Clarita, Ca.
model: 750 Paso
year: 1988
Thanks for all of the input. I've ordered the Hyperpro progressive springs so those will get installed. FYI - They also have a kit that includes the spring for the rear shock as well. I passed on that for now due to budget.

The front tire is a Conti Sport Attack 130/70 ZR16. I had to go that route because when my front Michelin finally gave up the tires from Golden Tyre were not yet availble. I spaced the fender up and lightly shaved the sides of the tire so it would fit. Tire was balanced after I did that. Now that the front of the bike is apart I may also cut a left and right slot in the fender where it passes behind the forks for additional clearance. I know the wheel is round because I had that checked prior to installing the new tire. The tires (front and rear) only have about 3k on them. The rear is a Shinko SE-890 180/60. Again, since the GoldenTyre options were not available at the time this seemed like the best replacement. I had to shave the sidewall a little and spaced the rear sprocket 10mm as well as doing a 10mm mod on the front sprocket as well. Chain is straight. But, when I get it back together I'll check tracking front to rear.

The bike doesn't sit too long and it's always on the center stand. I try to ride it at least once every week. Even if it's a short ride around town.

Any suggestions on brake pads?

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 Post subject: Re: Front end setup and other bits of info needed
PostPosted: Mon Dec 09, 2013 8:03 pm 
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paso grand pooh-bah
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Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2007 12:35 am
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Location: Newzealand
model: 906 Paso
year: 1990
The easiest way to check the steering head bearings . Bike on center stand ... front wheel off the ground ./ Try to pull forks back and forth to check for loose ness ( adjustment ) and turn bars from side to side feeling for any notchy ness in the straight ahead position , this indicates wear and will tend to cause the bars to want to stay a within few degrees of straight ahead , this will usually show up as a weave . If your not sure if you can feel it or not , and it can be hard to determine , try tightening up the bearings and retest . When you get the bearings out the wear is easy to see , I don't have an image to show you .... someone else might

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 Post subject: Re: Front end setup and other bits of info needed
PostPosted: Mon Dec 09, 2013 8:38 pm 
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Joined: Sat Mar 19, 2005 12:00 am
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Location: Santa Clarita, Ca.
model: 750 Paso
year: 1988
Thanks McTool. I'll go put "the feel" on my forks.

Also - Just posted this in the for sale section (viewtopic.php?f=4&t=6459). I bought the Hyperpro Progressive springs and when I got the invoice there was a 15% discount applied?! I called them back and asked what was differnt from what I was quoted and they said it was a holiday promo until January 30th. Reduced cost of the kit; $135.15. :choo:

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 Post subject: Re: Front end setup and other bits of info needed
PostPosted: Mon Dec 09, 2013 9:13 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 12:00 am
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Location: Lower Hutt, New Zealand
model: 750 Paso
year: 1986
Ahdoman,

Try 5wt fork oil. Have used that for some years and works well.

Cheers,

Fraser.

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 Post subject: Re: Front end setup and other bits of info needed
PostPosted: Mon Dec 09, 2013 9:22 pm 
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Location: southern Germany
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year: 1987


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 Post subject: Re: Front end setup and other bits of info needed
PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 3:52 am 
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paso grand pooh-bah
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Location: Eastern Shore, MD
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year: 1988
Without a standard size tire, your setup will be all guesswork and only apply to your bike. The hopping or jumping of the front could just be the strange sized tire. Who knows?


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 Post subject: Re: Front end setup and other bits of info needed
PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 10:40 pm 
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Joined: Sat Mar 19, 2005 12:00 am
Posts: 107
Location: Santa Clarita, Ca.
model: 750 Paso
year: 1988
Thanks "ducinthebay" and "Paso750" for the links and info. I keep forgetting that you need to dig around in that documents section to find the treasures.

Any idea why Marzocchi released the service bulletin showing the holes being drilled? What does that do? Also. I assume the measurements they give are from the bottom of the fork tube? I assume the hole can be anywhere around the circumfirence of the tube as long as it's the right height?

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 Post subject: Re: Front end setup and other bits of info needed
PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 11:40 pm 
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The holes allow the fork oil to return to the bath quicker. If you hit a quick series of bumps, you will pump all of the fluid into the center of the fork tube, and it won't have any oil left to dampen properly It also makes the fork action very stiff until the oil is allowed to return to the fork bottom. Basically, it keeps your fork action the same all the time by keeping the oil levels proper more of the time.

Cheers, Phil

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1990 750 Sport x2-Rosso Blanko (900ss copy) & Nuovo Nudo (Scrambler project)
1991 907 -mostly stock
2002 ST4s - Lots of mods.


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 Post subject: Re: Front end setup and other bits of info needed
PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 2:16 am 
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Joined: Sat Mar 19, 2005 12:00 am
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Location: Santa Clarita, Ca.
model: 750 Paso
year: 1988
Sounds like a worthwhile operation. That perfectly describes what has happening over small quick consistent bumps. I assume they are measuring from the bottom of the fork tube and not the external slider?

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 Post subject: Re: Front end setup and other bits of info needed
PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 8:37 am 
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there`s a pm you didn`t read


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 Post subject: Re: Front end setup and other bits of info needed
PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 1:42 pm 
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Location: Windsor, CT USA
One thing to remember about the M1R - the left fork tube controls compression damping, the right fork tube controls rebound damping.

Try 5 wt fork oil in the left tube, and 10 wt in the right, I like the results that I got for both compression and rebound with the rebound control set to position 2.


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